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| Current ssjbkk Goku and the rest of Super | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2017, 11:03 PM (3,996 Views) | |
| Griffzilla | Apr 23 2017, 03:08 AM Post #31 |
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Toriyana used it for the movie. Besides how could Goku go from being 60% to still being weaker than Beerus after a new transformation, years of training and kk? Even if he used regular kk in ssjg form he would be stronger than Beerus despite Whis saying even in ssjb they're nowhere near Beerus. It was implied several times throughout the series that Beerus could kill Goku whenever he wanted to, casually. It took ssjb Vegetto for someone to approach Beerus. we know that the multiplier for potara is insane. There's just no way to make 6 work. |
| "I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean | |
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| Slifer | Apr 23 2017, 03:15 AM Post #32 |
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You're wasting your time. He thinks Super's anime and manga have the same powerscaling even though that's clearly not the case. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Apr 23 2017, 03:23 AM Post #33 |
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Toriyama didn't say "This comparison only works in terms of the movie". He stated flat out, that's how they compare, nothing more attached to it. Nothing says that Kaioken Goku is weaker than Beerus. Beerus's and Whis's dialogue doesn't imply that. Goku and Hit scaring Champa doesn't imply that. Neither does Goku overpowering Merged Zamasu whom is above Beerus imply that. The only reason people think that is because they want to conveniently ignore every instance where something is stated about Beerus's power. Like Vegeta forcing him to use 10%, which makes SSJG Goku much stronger than that 10%, which makes x10 Kaioken SSB undeniably stronger. Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta are much weaker than Beerus. Goku being able to amp his power above Beerus with a technique means nothing. That's not surpassing him. That would be like me saying that Goku surpassed Merged Zamasu because he can fire off a Kamehameha stronger than him. Merged Zamasu is much stronger than Goku. The performance of the 2 Saiyans against a God stronger than Beerus would indeed mean if push came to shove, they would be perfectly capable of standing up to Beerus together. |
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| + Saiyan Paladin | Apr 23 2017, 03:44 AM Post #34 |
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Hit rolling over when Champa threatens to kill him? Or Goku sitting the f*** down like a good little boy when Beerus tells him to, instead of trying to help Hit like he was going to? Also Whis only asks Beerus if he was getting a little worried when he saw Goku's KKx10 Blue, it always comes off to me as Whis implying KKx10 Blue Goku was approaching Beerus' level, not being well above it.
The only reason you're trying to use the 10% statement is because you want to conveniently ignore everything contradicting that statement, like Beerus admitting to lying about how much power he used. I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing, though. Edited by Saiyan Paladin, Apr 23 2017, 03:50 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Apr 23 2017, 03:52 AM Post #35 |
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I think Toei is paying him commission for every post he makes promoting the guidebooks or any kind of official secondary material, and that's why he can only construct arguments using that information rather than thinking for himself. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Apr 23 2017, 03:55 AM Post #36 |
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Beerus specifically stated that he lied to Goku about using 100% of his power in order to bring out his potential. He didn't say anything about lying to Vegeta, but of course people will keep warping the story to fit their own biased perspective. SSJG Goku isn't weaker than 10% Beerus. Are people really this daft? Regardless of how much people will try to delude themselves into believing the heavily warped version of the story that they concocted, Toriyama himself puts SSJG Goku at 60% of Beerus, so that's what it is. Nobody arguing for SSJG Goku being .000001% of Beerus's power has any evidence for what they're saying. All I've ever seen is heavy extrapolation for no reason, ignoring statements and ridiculous guessing games in order to go against what's blatantly stated, which is of course the norm here and I'm positive that this is never going to change. |
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| Slifer | Apr 23 2017, 03:57 AM Post #37 |
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So in the manga, Shin sees SSJB Vegetto and practically blows his load right there. The young Kaioshin (who has a history of being a buffoon) even says he might be stronger than Beerus. Might. Yet Goku goes SSJB Kaioken in front of every single Kaioshin and Hakaishin. This power is supposedly stronger than Beerus according to Mr. Gogeta here, yet no one bats a f***ing eye? This random-ass mortal just surpassed Beerus (and Champa) and all we get is a couple of them shocked that he's using God ki. Bull to the s***. Edit: And if anyone would like to suggest that SSJB Kaioken x2 Goku is stronger than SSJB Vegetto, please step forward. Edited by Slifer, Apr 23 2017, 04:07 AM.
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| + Pointer | Apr 23 2017, 08:52 AM Post #38 |
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Even ssjb kaioken 10 goku is weaker than Beerus. Comparing ssjb manga vegito to anime kaioken goku is bad though
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| CameronBZH | Apr 23 2017, 11:12 AM Post #39 |
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Goku is pretty much on another level now with being able to us SSBKK and I think is slowly catching up to Beerus. Will be a while before he can have a real crack at defeating him but he's getting there. It's clear from the Gods of Destruction's reaction (terrifying I believe was said) at SSB on it's own that Goku and probably Vegeta will be in the top few strongest mortals of all the universes. I do think SSB due to it's emphasis on ki control that for seemingly training purposes it's power can be regulated way below it's potential. That's why recent episodes of Krillin's battle with him and even 17 looking like he's even with him shouldn't be taken too literally. |
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| superperfectnerd | Apr 23 2017, 02:59 PM Post #40 |
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I have Goku and Vegeta about three times as strong as they were against Golden Freeza, so with Kaioken X 10, Goku is 30x ROF power houses, he'd easily one shot any of them. |
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| Griffzilla | Apr 24 2017, 03:05 AM Post #41 |
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3 times stronger is a reasonable estimate. 30x stronger than even ssjg is intense. Kk kind of takes the wind out of Vegeta's sails. It's a bummer. That's one of the positives of the manga tho for sure. |
| "I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean | |
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| Sam | Apr 24 2017, 03:27 AM Post #42 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Indeed. Non-canon. ![]() Not that the manga is the knight in shining armour, as the most recent leaked chapters have shown... but it's far superior to the trash we've gotten from the anime. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the anime, but it has completely trashed each and every power-scaling and versus debate. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| Sam | Apr 24 2017, 03:33 AM Post #43 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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You making bizarre and ridiculous claims that absolutely nobody agrees with is the norm here. Based on silly, old stuff like 6/10/15 that only applied to BoG and by now is irrelevant. If Akira could unsay it, he would. That much is clear from the progression of the anime and manga. I think you're looking in a mirror, my friend. We're not the daft ones ![]() Toriyama is also the guy that thought Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2, and forgot that Super Saiyan 2 existed to begin with. Which means he basically forgot the entire ending of an arc. Despite also claiming to have re-read his own manga prior to writing Super. So... yeah. The Great One isn't really the source to cite here, author or not, he is perhaps one of the worst when it comes to judging the strengths of his own characters. |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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